03/18/2020 01:00 PM House RESOURCES

          HB 218-SALT WATER FISHING: OPERATORS/GUIDES                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:09:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  announced the  only order of  business would  be CS                                                              
FOR  HOUSE BILL  NO.  218(FSH),  "An Act  relating  to salt  water                                                              
sport fishing operators  and salt water sport fishing  guides; and                                                              
providing  for an  effective  date."   [Before  the committee  was                                                              
CSHB 218(FSH).]                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:10:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  VINCENT-LANG,  Commissioner,  Alaska  Department of  Fish  &                                                              
Game   (ADF&G),  said   HB  218   provided   funding  for   treaty                                                              
obligations  ADF&G   had  pertaining  to  [the   Northern  Pacific                                                              
Halibut Act of 1982] and [the Pacific Salmon Treaty of 1985].                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:10:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HOPKINS asked whether  the reporting  requirements                                                              
were  new  or whether  they  had  been  in  place before  and  the                                                              
process was being extended.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  answered  that the  requirements  were                                                              
the same as the  ones in place at the sunset of HB  218 "a year or                                                              
two ago."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:11:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HANNAN  asked how  many  salt water  guides  there                                                              
were.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:11:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TOM  TAUBE,  Deputy  Director,  Division  of  Sport  Fish,  ADF&G,                                                              
replied that  there were approximately  800 salt water  guides and                                                              
400 businesses, and the number was about equal for freshwater.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HANNAN asked  how many  of these  were salt  water                                                              
and freshwater guides.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TAUBE replied  that because  there  was no  logbook data  for                                                              
freshwater  and  the  registration  program was  not  specific  to                                                              
freshwater or salt water, that information was not available.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:12:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  asked about  fees and whether  the fiscal                                                              
notes were correct.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:13:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  replied  that  the fee  structure  was                                                              
higher than  at the sunset of HB  218, but ADF&G tried  to recover                                                              
the cost  of the logbook  program.   He offered his  understanding                                                              
that the fiscal note was current.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  observed that the date was  January 27 on                                                              
the committee's copy.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:14:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR opened public testimony on CSHB 218(FSH).                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:14:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FORREST  BRADEN,  Executive  Director,   Southeast  Alaska  Guides                                                              
Organization,  said data  was critical,  and he  supported HB  218                                                              
conditionally.   He said information gathered through  the logbook                                                              
program was  crucial to the operation  of the industry  and to get                                                              
people  up fishing  from the  Lower 48,  and he  said the  program                                                              
should  advance.  Mr.  Braden said  there was  also concern  about                                                              
data collection  on halibut.   One reason  "pains had  been taken"                                                              
to  be  so  specific  about names  on  licenses  was  because  the                                                              
federal  government  wanted  to  know  exactly  what  the  halibut                                                              
release and  harvest was,  he said.   He added as  far as  he knew                                                              
there was  no subsidy  from the  National Oceanic and  Atmospheric                                                              
Administration  (NOAA), the  cost was  a burden  to the  industry,                                                              
and it seemed  like a high fee  structure.  He said it  has been a                                                              
shock to  the industry that  the fees were  being doubled,  and he                                                              
suggested  other   sources  for   cost,  such  as   surcharges  on                                                              
licenses.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:17:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR asked  whether, prior to the sunset  of the program,                                                              
fees were half of what was suggested under CSHB 218(FSH).                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRADEN confirmed  fees had been $200 and  were currently $400.                                                              
He added that ADF&G has had to foot the bill.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR asked  for  an explanation  of  guided angler  fish                                                              
(GAF).                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRADEN  replied if one looked  in the logbook, there  would be                                                              
a column for halibut  and a column for GAF fish.   If there were a                                                              
way for  anglers to have extra  opportunities to  harvest halibut,                                                              
that  data  would also  be  collected.    This is  another  burden                                                              
placed by  the federal government  on those keeping  the logbooks,                                                              
he explained.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR  confirmed  that   the  National  Marine  Fisheries                                                              
Service had previously suggested there would be some support.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:19:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MELVIN GROVE, President,  Prince William Sound (PWS)  Charter Boat                                                              
Association,  stated members  strongly opposed  HB 218.   He  said                                                              
there was  no opposition  to filling  out the  logbooks.   He said                                                              
one  of the  issues members  had  was that  under  the salt  water                                                              
registry, anglers  working under  the federal government  would be                                                              
charged $30  and clients  would fish  for free.   It would  not be                                                              
necessary to  obtain a license if  one fished in salt  water under                                                              
the salt  water registry, he explained.   This could  be confirmed                                                              
by NOAA's website,  he added.  Because the state  has an agreement                                                              
with the  federal government to  provide data, there was  a charge                                                              
for  fishing  licenses,  from  which   millions  of  dollars  were                                                              
collected yearly.   Logbook data from the association  was used as                                                              
it was more accurate in terms of halibut allocation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:21:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROVE  said the state used  to use harvest survey  data, which                                                              
cost about $400,000  or $500,000 to obtain.  He said  the data was                                                              
so inaccurate that  the association's data was used  in its stead.                                                              
He questioned  why  money was being  spent on  an outdated  survey                                                              
when data  was being  provided by  the association  for free.   He                                                              
pointed  to the  fiscal note  which listed  $356,000 for  personal                                                              
services and wondered  how that was justified.  He  said the state                                                              
does not have  to analyze the data  but may give it to  NOAA or to                                                              
the  federal  government  for  analyzation.   He  added  that  the                                                              
federal  government  should  reimburse  the  state,  and  if  this                                                              
happened, charter  boat operators should  also be reimbursed.   He                                                              
opined that this  was a money grab  by ADFG.  He said  he found it                                                              
ironic that  freshwater guides were  being left out when  in years                                                              
past they had  been included.  He restated his  opposition, citing                                                              
added  restrictions, and  said it  was not reasonable  to  pay the                                                              
guide license fee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:25:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR  asked  Mr.  Grove   whether  the  association  was                                                              
originally opposed when the fees had been lower.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. GROVE  replied that  they had been  opposed in 2012-2014  when                                                              
Charlie Swanton  had been  director.   They had  agreed to  a $200                                                              
fee for  everyone, which had  since sunset.   He said he  has been                                                              
trying to raise  awareness of HB 218, as among  the association it                                                              
is little known legislation, he stated.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:26:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR, after  ascertaining no one else  wished to testify,                                                              
closed public testimony on CSHB 218(FSH).                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR  cited  the  fiscal  note  and  asked  for  ADF&G's                                                              
response.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:27:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER VINCENT-LANG  said the cost  of the program  was more                                                              
expensive  than what they  were trying  to recover.   He  said the                                                              
goal was  to recover  costs, make  logbooks electronic,  and break                                                              
even,  if  not  save  money  through the  program.    He  said  he                                                              
understood  complaints  surrounding  federal requirements  to  get                                                              
money.   The federal  government would charge  anglers to  put the                                                              
program in  place, so ADF&G  felt better  being in control  of it.                                                              
Commissioner Vincent-Lang  reiterated there  was value  in keeping                                                              
the state in control of data.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:29:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TAUBE  added costs  barely covered  the existing  cost  of the                                                              
program, and  there was  a push for  e-logbooks, which  would make                                                              
data available sooner than the paper logbooks.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG said  he intended  to try  to get  more                                                              
money  from  the  federal  government   as  the  obligations  were                                                              
federal.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:30:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HANNAN asked  whether the  doubling of fees  since                                                              
2018 was  because fewer guides  would be participating  or because                                                              
it was taking  more general funds to operate  the logbook program.                                                              
She  then  asked,  if  "people  converting  to  electronic  versus                                                              
paper" resulted  in cost-savings,  whether  fees would be  reduced                                                              
after a season.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  replied all  costs  were  now paid  by                                                              
ADF&G  funds  and  Dingell-Johnson  (DJ)  [funds].    He  said  he                                                              
thought part of  the reason program costs were  increased was that                                                              
it  was  underfunded  and supplanted  by  other  funding  sources,                                                              
which  were becoming  more and more  competitive  in terms  of how                                                              
business  was being done  across the  state.   He said  he thought                                                              
there was some  reduction in freshwater costs, but  the main issue                                                              
was the program was  not paying its costs.  If  money were to come                                                              
in from the federal  government or there was  evidence money would                                                              
be saved  by e-logs,  Commissioner Vincent-Lang  said he  would be                                                              
happy  to  revisit  fees  and pass  savings  on  to  charter  boat                                                              
anglers.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:32:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  RUTZ, Director,  Division of  Sport Fish,  ADFG, said  that                                                              
even  when   the  freshwater   program  was   in  place,   it  was                                                              
underfunded and other ways to collect money had been sought.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:33:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN  asked, if data  had been driven  by federal                                                              
treaties and regulations,  how Alaska's logbooks  would compare to                                                              
Washington   state's  in   terms  of  salmon   and  halibut   data                                                              
collection.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:34:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG  responded   that  he  knew  Washington                                                              
state had  salt water  and krill  survey programs.   He  said that                                                              
when Salmon  Treaty data  had been obtained,  it had  been through                                                              
dockside krill  surveys or logbooks  from charter  boat operators.                                                              
He added he was unsure of the cost of programs.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN  asked whether any other treaty  partners or                                                              
halibut participants  had been successful  in recouping  costs for                                                              
data they had collected for the federal government.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  VINCENT-LANG replied  he was  not aware of  halibut;                                                              
on  the  Salmon  Treaty  side,   money  had  gone  into  increased                                                              
mitigation and  not into dockside  reporting.  He  said additional                                                              
money through  the Salmon Treaty  would be used to  help determine                                                              
stock origins of fish.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:35:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR noted  that bare  boat charters  enabled lodges  to                                                              
bypass  halibut restrictions  by renting  boats to  anglers.   She                                                              
acknowledged  that  the lack  of  data on  how  many halibut  were                                                              
caught  in  this manner  was  an  unresolved  issue and  could  be                                                              
impactful to fisheries.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:38:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR LINCOLN  moved to report  CSHB 218(FSH) out  of committee                                                              
with  individual  recommendations   and  the  accompanying  fiscal                                                              
notes.  There  being no objection, CSHB 218(FSH)  was reported out                                                              
of the House Resources Standing Committee.